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rawliverandgoronspice · 2 years ago

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THE GERUDO POST

(aka an attempt at a critique of how gerudos were handled in BotW and before)

Oh no. TOTK being right around the corner, it might finally be time for the Gerudo Post.

(aka half of the reason why I made a Zelda sideblog in the first place)

So I want to preface all of this by saying that, as you could probably tell already, I’ve always adored the gerudos. They have fascinated my small child brain when I was 7; then the obsession made its comeback when I was 14, and now, here we are, almost 28, and I’m still thinking about the gerudos. I think they might be among my favorite fictional cultures for their potential and their understated storyline. I guess growing up in a very Arabic neighborhood, coupled with being bi-culturally latinx (?? does Brazil count?? you tell me), also always made them feel like home to me –especially when I was very young and there was not a lot of cool female representation flying around that managed to involve fiercely independent PoC women, flaws and teeth included.

This whole weird-essay-thing tries to do two things. First: analyze the place gerudos have occupied in the series, their initial problematisms and their subtextual narrative arc during the Myth Era coupled with their relationship to Ganondorf. Second: tiptoe to Breath of the Wild and poke it with a stick to see what happens –and in doing that, explain why I believe a lot of their characterization was defanged in service of smoothing their past with the hylians instead of deepening the culture on its own terms, and why I’m a little apprehensive about what that might mean for TotK even though I adore seeing the best girls at it again.

Those are the uhh terms of service??

And now, we must go back to 1998.

OCARINA OF TIME ERA

There’s so many things about the gerudos that are noteworthy and rich, and they’ve made for a complex piece of Zelda lore ever since their introduction –and when I say complex, I don’t 100% mean it as praise. The very racially charged decisions made about their inclusion have been discussed at length by the fandom, especially when it comes to orientalist and Islamophobic tropes being deployed pretty thoughtlessly in Ocarina of Time (their sigil being literally a crescent moon and star originally, the parallels are pretty obviously there).

We’re talking about a band of amazon-like, big-nosed brown women from the desert ruled by a single Scary Evil Man born once every hundred years hellbent on conquering Hyrule who they apparently worship like a god, characterized primarily as thieves, decked in jewelry and orientalist-inspired harem/belly-dancing clothing, hostile to the white good guys of Hyrule (especially men), unblessed by the Goddesses and so deprived of elongated ears (this is true for OoT –we’ll come back to that), also known as a demon tribe with their deity straight-out described as evil-looking by Navi (on my way to cancel you on twitter Navi you watch out), and secretly led by evil twin witches who can turn into a single seductress and, as two mothers, raised their Scary Evil Guy king who happens to basically be the devil.

In so few words, gerudos are the future that liberals want.

It’s worth notice, also, that Ganondorf’s characterization in this game is… kind of relentlessly uncomfortable to play through, especially before the 7 year skip. The utter assumption of depraved and evil intents from every character surrounded by dialogue that does little to hide its biases in spite of having generally very little proof to back them up –even though, in the game’s context, every character is correct to call his eyes evil and the darkness of his skin a moral judgment in on itself. The scene where Zelda demands that we believe her conclusion that the sole and only brown guy in the entire kingdom is evil and will do harm, and the game straight out refuses to progress until we concede that her dreams are prophetic and that this man must be stopped at any cost even though she has no more proof than her discomfort… hits different on replay.

I’m restating all of this not to pretend I’m making a novel and thought-provoking point, but to bounce back on a tumblr post I saw a while back (that I can’t find anymore!! I’ll link it if I find it again) –and so express what it is that gripped me with the gerudos in spite of their pretty damning depiction… and actually maybe thanks to it.

There’s a surprising amount of texture to Ocarina of Time’s worldbuilding that exists folded within the things introduced and left hanging, or in its subtext –and whether on purpose or not, I believe it is why people keep coming back to this iteration of Hyrule.

What was that about the king of Hyrule unifying a war-torn country? Why did the gerudos break the bridge connecting them to the rest of the kingdom during the 7 year timeskip while still worshiping Ganondorf, and why are the carpenters trying to rebuild it against their apparent wishes? What was that about gerudos imprisoning hylian men trying to force entry into their lands? What was that about the secret death torture chambers right next to the Royal Family’s tomb and connected to the race of people who were, apparently, born to serve them?

Nothing? Oh okay… okay… okay….

The same can be said about this strange depiction of this hostile tribe, consistently described as wicked yet suddenly friendly once you prove you deserve their respect once you... defeat them, so you now have joined them? Ocarina of Time isn’t very consistent when it comes to characterizing them as their occupation (thieves) or as a proper culture, with a king and a strange system of rulership that seem to involve at least 5 people: Ganondorf, the Twinrova, Nabooru and the unnamed random woman who decides you’re now part of the gerudos because you slashed enough of them with your sword and hookshot, which, uhh ok.

They’re but a ragtag and negligible group when discussed next to gorons and zoras and hylians, but they also clearly have their own religion and at least a 400-hundred years old history (probably far longer than this) and hints of a written language of their own. I’m not sure the game itself knows what it wants them to be, beyond: intimidating and hot and cool, but also wicked and, because of Ganondorf and the way you barge in their forbidden fortress (heh) with the explicit intent to dismantle their king, in apparent need to be saved from themselves.

Speaking of rulership and the Spirit Temple, let’s have a quick tangent about Nabooru: I always found her characterization when meeting with Child Link pretty strange. I refuse to mention the promised reward, which feeds into everything orientalist mentioned above, but I always found her moral compass so extremely convoluted for someone coming from gerudo culture. Nabooru says that, despite being a cool thief herself, she resents Ganondorf for killing people as well as stealing from women and children. Stealing... from women. Nabooru. Why are you this pressed that he steals from women!!! This feels so out of place, that the only girl of that hostile culture that betrays her king and befriends you, is the one that upholds moral values that only a hylian could possibly hold.

Either way: the strange unquestioned contempt of the game for them as a culture, mixed with the occasional bouts of heart, friendliness and badassery, makes it hard not to consider their depiction as pretty biased in favor of the hylians finding them at once exotic, scary and exciting, and could hide a more complex reality you might only get one side of –especially when you know there were originally plans for Ganondorf’s character to be more gray and motivated than what the campy final version ended up being. To be blunt: even in the context of a game for children, and maybe because of that fact, it all reads like a reductionist and imperialist/colonialist reading of a more complex situation.

This might seem like A Lot coming from a game where the actual game writing can be this overall flimsy and simplistic due to the standards of the time (it’s rough, it's so rough). But I would have never dwelt on that thought about a little children’s game if not for the mainline entries that came soon after, because... ooo boy.

The sense you’re not getting the whole story was certainly not helped by the introduction of Wind Waker Ganondorf, and the chilling emptiness of Gerudo Desert in Twilight Princess.

AFTER THE TIMELINE SPLIT

(I’m skipping Majora’s Mask, not because I dislike them in the game or think they’re not worth talking about, but because it’s a parallel universe and they’re never even called gerudos and their reality seems extremely different from their sisters in Hyrule so I think it’s okay to call them tangential and not dive too deep in this particular depiction)

Here’s something I want to highlight about gerudos and how they were characterized before BotW came along: their absence. Not only their physical absence, the lack of any gerudo character that calls themselves gerudo, but their absence from the text itself.

It’s not that Wind Waker and Twilight Princess retroactively scratch them off existence: we can clearly see Nabooru’s stained glass art in WW as well as recognize them being mentioned in Ganondorf’s final boss soliloquy, and WELL there’s quite a lot to say about their imprint over the world of TP. They are there –or at least they... were there. But nobody ever talks about what happened.

In Wind Waker, there was the deluge. It’s assumed lots of people died then, and those who survived scattered across the Great Sea. Are they sealed under the waves? Have they drowned? Is Jolene, Linebeck’s ex-girlfriend in Phantom Hourglass, a distant relative of one of the rare survivors? It’s unclear, beyond the fact that Ganondorf is the only living gerudo we see in this entire branch of the Timeline split.

In Twilight Princess, the desert which bares their name is empty. The hylians never mention that it used to be the name of a tribe: they’re not even named when Ganondorf is introduced for the first time, reduced once again to a mere band of thieves. We learn his plans to steal the Triforce in OoT were foiled, and that he may have turned to war. Then he lost the war, and was executed in Arbiter’s Ground: a strange structure in the desert, a mixture between a temple, a prison and a coliseum. What looks like gerudo writing coexists with hylian symbols, which often look much fresher. This dungeon is the Shadow Temple of TP: a prison hosting the worst criminals the kingdom has ever known, now haunted and cursed. Besides the locations, the only character that vaguely look gerudo in the entire game besides Ganondorf is Telma, a character with pointed ears that never seems to identify as anything but a hylian. What happened? Who’s to say. Nobody ever says anything. Not even Ganondorf bothers to mention them the way he did in WW –and though the game’s story is quite focused on another exiled tribe seeking revenge and dominion over Hyrule as retribution, the parallel is never explicitly drawn. So who’s to say what happened there. Who’s to say.

And in A Link to the Past and the games forward? The only mention of other gerudo characters are Koume and Kotake, resurrecting their son in the Oracles games through their own sacrifice and failing to bring anything back but a monstrosity incapable of making conscious decisions. Granted, most games in that extremely weird Fallen Timeline predate OoT and therefore had yet to make gerudos up at all. Still: canonically, between the gap of OoT and ALLTP, whatever it may be, gerudos disappeared here as well.

I think there’s something subtle and a little heartbreaking about the fact that no matter what Ganondorf does, the gerudos always end up dying out. His yearning for Hyrule, its gentler wind and the Triforce blessing its lands always costs him the kingdom that he does have already.

Now, does he care? A lot of people would argue that he doesn’t, that he used them like pawns for his own ambition and saw them as servants more-so than sisters, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Nintendo’s official opinion, but… One very powerful thing about most of Ganondorf’s incarnations (focusing on the human ones) is that he never seems to reject his cultural heritage. They could have gone for him wearing more kingly hylian stuff given the whole underlying theme of envy and pride surrounding his character, but never once does he try to look more hylian, beyond the ear situation that seems to be tied to the Triforce of Power? Either way: he is gerudo. Several of his outfits reference his mothers, as well as general gerudo patterning and jewelry. His heritage is something he proudly displays, even hundred of years in the future when there is no one left to remember what it means but him. I think it’s a very potent piece of characterization, an arc that crosses over multiple game and says something pretty intense about this character’s fate and his inherent destructiveness over the things he touches –starting with the Triforce, all the way up to his very own body and mind. His mental breakdown by the end of Wind Waker, when the king of Hyrule himself forces him to give up on the thing he sacrificed everything for, takes a new kind of weight with the whole picture taken into account.

(not to excuse genocide or general egomania-fueled madness and violence, but one thing doesn’t mean the other isn’t also relevant)

Regardless of whether this is a tragedy for Ganondorf as their uhh complete failure of a king, honestly, it is undeniably a tragedy for the gerudos themselves: a once-in-a-lifetime joyful event turned into a never-ending nightmare from which there seems to be no escape, their legacy now condemned to fade to black, leaving nothing behind but a demon boar forever laying ruin upon the world.

One may say I’m taking on the bleakest explication for the gerudos’ absence when there could be others. It’s true! Perhaps the gerudos are just chilling off-screen, completely fine, not interested in whatever is happening in the kingdom nearby and their disaster child having yet another temper tantrum about not being the Goddesses’ favorite boy. It’s possible! But regardless, what little elements we do possess as players doesn’t seem to support this, even if it remains possible –and regardless of actual gerudo lives, gerudo culture is definitively a goner in every single timeline.

Even if they did survive... Hyrule still won its unification war.

(I won’t mention Skyward Sword as they are not really a thing there, except for a butterfly that seems to suggest the Gerudo Province was a thing before the gerudo people –I don’t know what to do with this honestly– and the whole Groose situation, which, I’m not sure what to make of either beyond the fact that he may have gotten cursed by opposing Demise? And then went on to start the gerudo tribe, which ended up being an all-women group for some reason? Maybe? It’s not confirmed? I feel like it’s more of a fun tidbit than a central piece of the gerudo puzzle, so I’ll leave it there like I would a cool rock I brought back from a walk and that I don’t know where to put in my house)

Then, Breath of the Wild happened and changed things.

BREATH OF THE WILD

(Additional short note, but: while I won’t mention Four Swords Adventure, since it’s a weird one that almost nobody has played and severely messes with the Timeline, we kind of see the beginnings of what is about to happen in Breath of the Wild in this game –gerudos coming back without much explanation, then distancing themselves from Ganondorf to become friends with hylians because he was too hungry for power and now they are nice and have good reputation because they are our friendsss)

I was actually so happy to learn gerudos were making a comeback in a mainline Zelda game, and this got me more excited about Breath of the Wild than basically anything else the game involved. And getting to explore the Desert once again, meeting this new batch of impossibly tall buff girls, getting more about their language and their culture, Riju and the rest of the little girls are adorable, the grandmas are so cool, the sand seals??? sign me the fuck up??? And above it all, hanging around Gerudo Town at night and feeling as warm and cozy as little me liked to imagine how freeing it would feel, to stay there and watch the desert behind the safety of their walls in OoT… This was great. I loved it.

It was a huge compensation for the criticism I’m about to make, but did leave me with… questions regarding how their culture was going to be handled moving forward.

I’ll start with something small yet deeply revelatory, then work my way from there.

So... gerudos’ ears are pointy now.

This is pretty significant. Lore-wise, it’s been said that the elongated ears of hylians are there so they can better hear the voices of the gods. It’s considered a sign of holiness in-universe. There's a bunch of really thoughtful analysis on tumblr over that whole Ganondorf ear situation, which is a mess but also very interesting, but the short answer is: I think the absence of pointy ears was a clear design choice to originally signify them as Less Good. Even when Ganondorf gets pointier ears, they never get as long as hylians’. Worth noting: not every non-gerudo character has pointy ears: gorons, zoras and ritos (among others) do not possess this trait, and there are even some humans that have regular rounded ears in the series –though they always seem to be of lesser relevance, if not downright peasants in Twilight Princess. Pointy ears always tended to implied a strict hierarchy in the series: basically, the more pointy, the more Protagonist you become.

(also their eyes becoming green instead of the traditional yellow/golden, which looks more wicked and demonic --and cooler also tbh)

The pointy ears imply two things. From within the game, this could be interpreted in two ways: either that gerudos… converted, for a lack of a better term, and are now considered holy through their worship of the Golden Goddesses and/or Hylia, or that their mingling with hylians through tens of thousands of years had them acquiring this trait out of sheer genetic override (though they have kept their mostly-women birth rates, their big nose, darker skin –for the most part– and red hair). Probably a healthy mixture of both. Design-wise, it signifies something quite simple to the player: they are on hylians’ side now. They are good guys. We can trust them, even if they still have a little spice in them. They aligned themselves with us and against Ganon in all of its manifestations (even if he’s but an angry ghastly pig being parasitic to everything it touches in this iteration). They are on the side of Good, definitively, and will fight evil by our side.

On that note, I think it’s worth bringing out another major change from their initial iteration, which is their overt friendship with Hyrule as a whole, and with the Royal Family in particular. Despite not allowing any voe inside their walls (we’ll come back to this), their relationship with hylians is pretty neat. They have booming trade roads, travel and meet with the rest of the cultures, and are fierce enemies with the Yiga clan, who are renowned for being huge Calamity Ganon supporters. The tables certainly have turned. I want to bring out, in particular, Urbosa’s friendship with the queen and her role as the cool aunt taking care of Zelda and protecting her from evil (to be noted: I am not familiar with Age of Calamity so if I’m mischaracterizing her in any way, please let me know). The gerudo sense of sisterhood has been extended to the royals they used to fight against. I would go on and say the cultures peacefully coexist, but I think that what we’re looking at here is a case of vassal behavior, just like we used to have from zoras (in the non-Fallen Timelines) and gorons. This is a huge departure from gerudos being openly rejecting of Hylian culture in their initial iteration, and something that is worth returning to later.

Okay. Now it’s time to mention the weird obsession BotW gerudos have with romance. I didn’t take notice of my issues with their writing until I realized how prevalent of a theme that was. Now, the reason given for gerudos to refuse entry to males (of every race) has much more to do with preventing young gerudos to make mistakes than anything else, and is actively being put into question by the younger generations –which would make sense. But the amount of NPCs that either lament their lack of match, talk about their husbands (because they marry now apparently) or are invested in romance, and a very limited understanding of romance at that (heterosexual, closed, etc), makes for much more of the population that I initially expected. There’s no mention of what’s going on with their males, if there are new males being born and either exiled or abandoned, or if Ganondorf being technically still alive have have cut them off male heirs. Either way: no more kings, only girlbosses chiefs.

To have the gerudos so interconnected with Hyrule, not only through trade but through extremely coded romance where they have to make themselves palatable to a future male partner and enforce fidelity, was… a choice. The extremely brief and skippable mention of gerudos sometimes going to Castle Town in search for boyfriends in OoT became half of their personality traits in this game. We went from a race that was fiercely independent and mocking of the unworthy men who tried to mingle with them, to… this. Now I’m not saying some of the sidequests aren’t cute, or that I didn’t like the wedding, or that the grandma near the abandoned statue of Hylia (so she was worshipped at some point) clocking us and talking about her love life wasn’t one of my favorite gerudo conversations. I’m saying that the vibes have definitively changed. For the better? I’m not sure.

I once stumbled upon an article that said that Breath of the Wild gerudos were a huge improvement compared to their original introduction, because they were no longer presented as evil and hostile thieves groveling at the boot of a single man, but as a full culture allied with the protagonist and actively involved in the story, while still getting their Cool Girl Badass moment (again can’t find it anymore, I’ll link it if I stumble upon it again). I see where this comes from, but I honestly can’t help but consider it a reading that assumes something pretty major (though through no fault of their own, as the games tend to hammer this down as hard as they can), and that being hylians as the unquestioned anchor of Good.

Which, in spite of what the games want me to believe, I… feel uncomfortable taking at face value.

To me, regarding how gerudos are being incorporated in that goodie narrative, this is kind of a case of surface-level feminism trumping over colonialist/imperialist concerns. It becomes more important to perform the aesthetics of being cool and friendly and independent than scratching at any deeper problem that would risk making people uncomfortable. This is kind of Green Skin Ganon all over again: oh wait, isn’t it a little icky to have the evil bad guy being brown while faced by the most aryan-looking ass heroes of all time? Okay, then let’s take the brown guy and make his skin green so we don’t have to feel bad anymore that the conflict has racial undertones!! Solved!! There’s nothing questionable about changing a PoC's features to make it more monstrous and less human, right?

To me, it’s kind of the coward option: instead of accepting the messy reality those initial choices created (and their interesting nuances if taken at face value), let’s just… rewrite the PoC culture’s history to make it feel less uncomfortable for the white heroes. In many ways, it is an extension of what hylians have always done: scrubbing the weird and messy things about the past and shoving them deep down into the spooky well and far into the desert prison and away in alternate hellish dimensions, and then make up a very simple story where they get to feel good about themselves –except this time, it’s the fabric of the games, the literal reality, bending backward to make it happen. Which, in my opinion, makes it much worse than before. Now, there’s no conversation. The fabric of reality is changing their own history so that there is nothing to discuss anymore. Ganondorf was always evil incarnate. He never had any point. It was always 100% his own fault, his own hubris, his own fated wickedness. He was always demonic (and green, very important –having a flashback to people on twitter accusing artists restoring the TotK green skin to the original brown of wanting to make Ganondorf black, and like….. how do I put it gently…..)

And, above all else: gerudo are to distance themselves from his legacy so they can stay in the club of the Good and Just and Holy.

Because here’s the messy thing: as much as I love seeing the gerudos again in Breath of the Wild and as much I love for them to have survived the Era of Myth (??? somehow ???), this… kind of changes Ganondorf’s character arc. No longer do we have the story of a king who wanted more, either for his people, for himself or both, and led his culture to its destruction in his search for absolute Power, while remaining ironically incapable of maintaining what little he already had. This starts from him kneeling to the king of Hyrule in OoT and leads to the deluge, Arbiter’s Ground, his own mothers dying for the sake of his failed resurrection. Breath of the Wild changes this: now, the gerudo were apparently fine without him? They apparently did their own thing and became suddenly and inexplicably disconnected from his actions? I know it’s kind of implied they side with hylians at the end of OoT, but it’s honestly never really explored why they would cheer for the death of their king while never seeming to resent him before except for Nabooru –there are mentions of brainwashing for those who resist him (as well as “other groups in the desert”, tho they are never mentioned again), but it’s hardly a proper plot point for the majority of the tribe, aaaand they still die by Wind Waker in the Adult Timeline, in spite of their potential alliegance…

(again, this shift towards submitting to Hyrule actually started with Four Swords Adventure, getting crisper with each iteration)

There used to be this polite blur regarding Ganondorf’s relationship to them, how much he used them and how much he acted in their name (with arguments for both sides), and I think this messy and debatable question mark was one of the most compelling aspects of his character. Gerudos rejecting their relationship at a near-cosmic, reality-bending level, removes a huge layer of complexity to both parties… all for the benefit of making hylians come out cleaner out of this whole exchange, their moral grayness barely a whisper in the distance.

I’ll kind of go on the record and say that I suspect the addition of Demise to the canon to serve a similar purpose (at least in part): if Ganondorf becomes but the manifestation of a demonic curse, and is no longer an extremely messy character brimming with agency and drive, forcing the heavens to reckon with said agency in a way he was never meant to access, born from a complex set of circumstances from which we clearly get only a limited and biased perspective, then it becomes extremely clear that he’s a Bad in a way that isn’t worth exploring further. Even if he does have some points, he is a Bad. It’s what matters most. Not to say I even hate what this angle can bring to the table or that I want him to become Good (I don’t –I’ll talk more about why I dislike most takes on him being a helpless victim to the curse), but once again, who benefits from adding another Unquestionned Baddie to the equation to rest upon? Not him, and not the gerudos, that’s for sure.

So. Why did I, me, personally, like the gerudos in the first place?

Beyond the inherent coolness factor of their culture and the fascinating mysteries of what is merely suggested, I think… I think I loved gerudos because we were obvious outsiders. Because their rejection of Hylian culture was so sharp and extreme, their value system so different, and their writing, their religion, their relationship to power and hierarchy and worth wanted nothing to do with hylians. They didn’t need hylians, beyond them having potential resources to steal. In fact, the threat of hylians influencing their culture was such that the entry to the Fortress was forbidden to everyone (I don’t think men were ever singled out, by the way, even though they are mocked relentlessly). I think there was something inherently hopeful about this semi-matriarchy resisting the outside world, and especially its notions of what girls were meant to be –it was 1998, and every other girl character in OoT, besides Impa and Sheik that?? is another can of worms entirely, is either helpless or someone to save. For them to reject this narrow vision of femininity was, in my opinion, much more radical than what we got in BotW. Less nuanced, more problematic perhaps? But also much more powerful. Gerudo Valley is home, not to a town, but a Fortress.

Hylians were worth being resisted.

In Breath of the Wild, their refusal to let men enter their town is kind of boiled down to a fading tradition over-focused on romance, a meek little game of chase. Their entire goal seems to be finding a hylian to settle down with. Say what you will about the single man and the many girls (never explored and completely open-ended in its implications, btw), but at least it wasn’t… that. At least it opened the way for different ways for people to exist and imagine culture and civilization, outside of the heterosexual couple, the christian-infused patriarchy and its trickling down implications. What I want to say is: let my girls tell hylians they ain’t shit!! That they aren’t the end all be all of reality! This is what made gerudos so compelling in the first place! Where is that bite now? Where is that self-definition?

It’s gone, because hylians need to be Good. So we tee-hee at the creep running laps around the town, we disguise ourselves to breach their trust and infiltrate their town (though there is nuance to be had there, gender be complicated etc), we watch them pine after shitty dudes and take classes to become the perfect approachable woman and make love soups with ?? strange ingredients honestly, and we witness them get very friendly with the Royal Family they used to conspire against, dying to protect the princess against the manifestation of their ancient king reduced to a raving puddle of Bad Boar.

Hyrule, unified against him.

TEARS OF THE KINGDOM

For posterity’s sake: this post was made before the game was released. I’ll probably update my thoughts on a separate thing later on.

I don’t think gerudos allying with the hylians and burying their own legends about Ganondorf as deeply underground as they can until it blows up in their face is a bad setup at all. It’s actually pretty juicy, and there’s a ton of fascinating stuff that could happen here –even some involving gerudos taking a firm stand against him while still reconnecting with their past and the choices they made once. This is my hope with the title of the game: Tears of the Kingdoms. Let’s examine them all, account for the damage, and decide how we move forward from there with the full knowledge of where we come from.

What I am afraid of (and I already made posts about that) is the scenario where gerudos rallying against Ganondorf, which I expect will forcefully try to take back his place as their king, is used for cheap feminist points that completely fail to examine, well. Everything mentioned above. Where reality bends itself out of the way of the Goddesses, and hylians’ responsibility in any of this mess, so that everything bad is 100% Ganon’s fault and so he must be cast aside and torn away from the Cool Gerudo Girls and this is 100% justified and deserved because we are Independent Women Who Take No Shit from No Men (unless they are the king of Hyrule or any random hylian they wish to marry apparently).

I’ll say this here because it’s been burning my mouth every time I see discourse about Ganondorf and the gerudo: gerudos declared him as their king. To make a really bad comparison that I dislike: he didn’t run around to assemble girls and make a cult around himself, he was born with the cult already formed around him (and it’s not a cult, it’s just a different mode of governance –hylians also revere the Royal Family like gods, don’t they?). This heavily changes the dynamics at play. Not to remove any agency from him to do a little invasion about it, but chances are the ancestors to BotW’s gerudos fully expected him to behave in this way, at least to a degree –in OoT you see very plainly that they value physical prowess, feats of thievery, witchcraft and general violence. It’s more complicated than him being a Bad and making the poor helpless women go along with the plan uwu –even taking the brainwashing into account, AND Koume and Kotake counting as gerudos too, even if they might not be not fully innocent in shaping the culture and the man himself. If manipulation and forced servitude is the explanation given, I’ll be genuinely mad –because, once more, all the nuance and messiness would be flattened for the sake of making Ganondorf Bad and the gerudo Good (= on hylians’ side).

It bears to be said: I think feminism stances that require, not to criticize (which is fair), but to fully dehumanize and bestialize men of color to make any sense are uhhh bad, and it's worth questionning who they end up serving in the end.

The flip side of this would be to make Ganondorf a poor little meow meow that was secretly controlled by the evil Demise all along, and... I’ll be real. I really don’t think it solves our problem at all. It might even make it worse.

My problem with how gerudos have been handled thus far, being mostly connected to how they behave in relation to hylians Good, is that they’ve been systematically defanged not to threaten the status quo as much as they used to. I think it’s pretty clear why I’m not a fan of Ganondorf being a mere victim of cosmic circumstances; I have a post that goes more in depth about this, but to simplify: my man has legitimate grievances. To make him a mere puppet to Evil Incarnate would, to me, be just another attempt to erase the despotism of the Goddesses, the unjust hierarchy of the world, what hylians have historically done to the races they were in conflict with (looking at the Yiga for the most recent example…)

I’m not saying his fight is clean or even legitimate, that he isn't driven by his own sense of self-importance above anything else, or that he should win (he has no plan beyond domination and victory, that's not a future). But I think there’s something really important about having someone being willing to fully consume himself and everything around him for the simple fact that someone should resist the order of the world. Even if that makes him a heartless, cruel, and egomaniac demon-pig. Even if there’s no Hyrule left to rule. Even if his own people despise him, or are long gone and forgotten.

Is it a little heart-wrenching? Uhh yes to me yes most definitively. This is why Wind Waker Ganondorf hits so hard, and remains (I think) his favorite entry in the series so far. But… I still find this fate of eternal resistance more resonant and empowered, and far less grim, than if Hyrule’s lore absorbs his hatred and rage, gives it to another entity that would be Badder (= more opposed to hylians and the goddesses), and scrubs it off anything icky and uncomfortable, rendering it completely domesticated and non-threatening to hylian domination; rubbed of his skin color, of his complexity, of his own emotions, even made... kind of sexy now, in the same way his sisters have been made before him? I am very, very afraid of him being turned from furious and an unapologetic subject in his own legend to a "redeemed" (according to whom??) and palatable object in somebody else’s, that you now end up having to… save from himself.

Again, I want to trust that Tears of the Kingdom can walk that line and preserve everything sharp and contrasting and profound and thrilling about this fascinating setup. I don’t expect a philosophy course, this is a game for children –but it doesn’t mean Nintendo didn’t do an astounding job with similar setups in the past. Again, I’ll invoke the Wind Waker conflict, but Twilight Princess did a lot of great things as well (Zant’s speech, if you can get past the weird stretches and stumping and NNHYAAAs, is pretty fantastic) –and the subtle writing of Majora’s Mask is also proof enough this series can be complex without being impermeable.

So this is where my hope lies. Not really with BotW’s writing, which, I’m sorry to say, but I found to be below what the series has done in the past (I have no problem with the setup and how the story is explored, I think it was a great idea, but wasn’t ever sold on the actual writing the way I may have been with previous titles –it felt… very tropey to me overall, with a couple of highlights). But Nintendo has shown to know how to write compelling stories for children that know where to sprinkle its darkness and how to preserve its hope, and this is this side I’m relying on for this delicate storyline moving forward.

And now? Now… I suppose we wait and see.

(thank you for reading my impossibly long essay what the actual hell, at least I got it all out of my system, see you in part 2 for when TotK comes out I suppose aaa)

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kaite--s · 9 months ago

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Inspired in @sister-dear ‘s fic

it’s the chapter 2, the scene where they kiss at the end ^^

I can’t stop thinking about them, they have conquered my brain and they don’t plan to leave soon D;

I mean, just look at them! Ravio is so shameless and funny, Link just fell in love and flirts with him back, but Ravio is so silly and dense that he doesn’t realize it and I adore them GAAAAHH

So far we have only seen the point of view of the rupees-loving merchant, but I can only imagine Link suffering as much as he did for love JSFKLDKH

I can mention how Link is the one who speaks little, but do we really know more about him than about Ravio? I mean, I realized when Ravio mentioned Hilda, we don’t know what her reason for separation was!

In the game it was for Hyrule, because of the difference of opinions between the two, but in the end Ravio returns and makes her change her mind.

Here Ravio doesn’t seem to know that it’s Hilda who attacked Hyrule (she did it?), and that makes me so curious *Insert rabid dog*

…Going back to the drawing, I hope you like it! I think it’s one of the most personality drawings I’ve ever made 💕

Even if i hated Link’s wet hair, water droplets, eyes, eyelashes, jaw and muscles. It was a declaration of war.

Instead Ravio was so easy to draw 🤧🤧 Why couldn’t you be like him, Link?

#albw ravio #ravioli ship #my art <3 #albw link #merman link #bois in love #It took me two months to do this #wtf #i love them #I don’t know how to draw muscles #send help #tysm for the fic!#i love it #ravio brainrot

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bigsoftmarshmallow · 3 months ago

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Continuation of the Goddess In Love Ask: He's back home, back to work, back trying to conquer/fight/take over… But now he knows he's being watched over by a Goddess. Would the Ganondorfs (Wind Waker, Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, Hyrule Warriors, and Tears of the Kingdom) & Demise ever try talking to her or praying to her? Ever try to invoke her?

Wind Waker Ganondorf

Thoughts and Reactions: Wind Waker Ganondorf is a complex character filled with bitterness and regret. Although he initially dismisses the goddess’s offer and returns to his quest, the memory of her lingers. He might not consciously pray or attempt to invoke her, but in moments of vulnerability, when he feels the weight of his actions or the emptiness of his conquests, he might find himself wondering if she is still watching.

Scene: Ganondorf stands atop his tower, staring out at the endless sea. The winds howl around him, a constant reminder of the world he despises. He clenches his fists, frustration boiling within him.

“I know you’re there,” he mutters under his breath, his voice barely audible over the wind. “Watching me… judging me.”

He closes his eyes, the memory of her soft voice and gentle touch creeping into his thoughts. For a brief moment, his anger falters, replaced by something he can’t quite name.

“If you’re truly there, goddess,” he whispers, almost against his will, “then show yourself. Let me see you once more�� if only to prove that you’re not just another ghost haunting me.”

But the wind carries his words away, leaving him alone with his doubts and regrets.

Ocarina of Time Ganondorf

Thoughts and Reactions: Ocarina of Time Ganondorf is prideful and power-hungry, viewing the goddess’s kindness as a moment of weakness. He would never openly pray or invoke her, seeing such actions as beneath him. However, the knowledge that she is watching might gnaw at him, leading to moments of silent contemplation when he’s alone. He might question whether her presence is a blessing or a curse.

Scene: In the depths of his castle, Ganondorf sits upon his throne, his eyes closed as he contemplates his next move. The room is silent, save for the faint crackling of torches on the walls.

“You’re still there, aren’t you?” he says quietly, his voice laced with bitterness. “Watching me… like a vulture waiting for its prey to fall.”

He opens his eyes, glaring into the shadows. “I won’t give you the satisfaction of seeing me falter, goddess. If you think your presence will weaken me, you’re mistaken.”

But despite his defiance, there’s a part of him—a small, nearly imperceptible part—that wonders what would happen if he called out to her. Would she answer? Or would she leave him to his fate?

Twilight Princess Ganondorf

Thoughts and Reactions: Twilight Princess Ganondorf is a vengeful and determined figure, consumed by his desire for revenge. He sees the goddess’s care as a distraction, something to be cast aside in his pursuit of power. Yet, the idea that she continues to watch him might cause a flicker of doubt, leading him to wonder why she saved him in the first place. He might not pray or invoke her directly, but in moments of frustration or defeat, he might curse her name, daring her to show herself again.

Scene: Ganondorf stands in the ruins of a battlefield, his sword dripping with the blood of his enemies. The stench of death hangs heavy in the air, but he pays it no mind. Instead, his thoughts turn to the goddess who had saved him, her gentle touch a stark contrast to the violence he thrives on.

“You should have left me to die,” he growls, his voice filled with anger. “Is this what you wanted, goddess? To see me continue down this path of bloodshed?”

He raises his sword to the sky, his eyes blazing with fury. “Show yourself! If you truly care for me, then face me! Otherwise, leave me be and stop haunting my thoughts!”

But the skies remain silent, and Ganondorf is left alone with his rage, the memory of her lingering like a ghost he can’t exorcise.

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf

Thoughts and Reactions: Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf, with his love for chaos and domination, might be intrigued by the idea of a goddess watching over him. He sees her as a potential tool or ally, someone who could be manipulated or used to further his goals. He might attempt to invoke her, not out of reverence, but out of a desire to see if she could be turned to his side or if her power could be harnessed.

Scene: In the heart of his war room, Ganondorf studies a map of Hyrule, his mind already plotting his next conquest. The thought of the goddess watching him brings a smirk to his lips.

“So, you’re still there, watching over me?” he muses aloud, his tone almost mocking. “Perhaps you wish to see what chaos I can bring. Or perhaps… you wish to join me.”

He closes his eyes, focusing his energy as he attempts to reach out to her. “If you truly care for me, goddess, then prove it. Lend me your power, and together we could rule this world.”

But as the silence stretches on, his smirk fades, replaced by a scowl. “Hmph. I should have known. Your kindness is wasted on someone like me.”

He turns back to his map, dismissing her presence from his thoughts—at least, for now.

Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf

Thoughts and Reactions: Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf, with his grand ambitions and desire to reshape the world, might find the idea of a goddess watching over him both frustrating and intriguing. He would likely see her as a potential ally or obstacle, depending on how she chooses to reveal herself. He might attempt to invoke her, either to confront her directly or to see if she would aid him in his quest.

Scene: Ganondorf stands atop a cliff, overlooking the vast lands he seeks to conquer. The wind carries the scent of the earth, the promise of power just within his grasp. Yet, his thoughts drift to the goddess who saved him, her presence a nagging reminder of something he can’t quite understand.

“Goddess,” he calls out, his voice steady and commanding. “If you’re truly watching over me, then show yourself. Let me see what it is you want from me.”

He waits, his eyes scanning the horizon for any sign of her. When none comes, he clenches his fists, frustration bubbling beneath the surface.

“Are you afraid? Or do you wish to test me further?” he mutters, his tone darkening. “Very well. But know this—if you stand in my way, I will not hesitate to destroy you.”

He turns away, his determination renewed. Yet, the thought of her watching, always just out of reach, continues to haunt him.

Demise

Thoughts and Reactions: Demise, as the embodiment of hatred and destruction, would find the idea of a goddess watching over him infuriating. He would likely see her as a nuisance or a threat, something that needs to be eradicated. He might attempt to invoke her, not to converse or pray, but to challenge her, to draw her out so he can confront and possibly destroy her.

Scene: In the depths of the underworld, Demise sharpens his blade, the sparks illuminating the darkness around him. The thought of the goddess watching him fills him with rage.

“You think you can control me, goddess?” he snarls, his voice echoing through the cavern. “You think your presence will sway me from my path?”

He raises his sword, its dark energy crackling with power. “If you dare to interfere, then show yourself! I will crush you, just as I have crushed all who stand in my way!”

The cavern falls silent, the only sound the crackling of his blade’s energy. When no response comes, Demise lets out a roar of frustration, the force of his anger shaking the very ground beneath him.

“Flee, then, goddess,” he growls, his voice filled with venom. “But know this—I will find you, and when I do, I will end you.”

With that, he plunges his sword into the ground, the dark energy seeping into the earth as he resumes his relentless quest for power, the thought of the goddess a constant thorn in his side.

#mallowresponse #legend of zelda #ganondorf #ganon #demise #ocarina of time #wind waker #twilight princess #hyrule warriors #tears of the kingdom #skyward sword #ai use #use of chatgpt

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karama9 · 1 year ago

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Yeah, still not over some Tears of the Kingdom stuff.

Because the truth is, I have seen things. Villains being turned into the good guys? Heck yes, we all have. It’s so popular that even published media, books and studios, keep doing it. It’s not like it’s new to me.

Any media with a villain is going to have some people decide that villain is actually the better person. I think the fact it’s so guaranteed to happen is part of why Megamind is so appealing: it’s the fanon trope made canon.

And it’s usually accompanied by the idea that the protagonist, or some other good characters, are actually to blame. The villain needed help and they refused or failed to see it! They did bad things too! They did bad things the narrative doesn’t tell you about!

In Tears of the Kingdom, there’s a bit of a shift because there’s a way more convenient character than Link to make guilty of Ganondorf’s crimes: Rauru.

So we have Ganondorf attempting a violent invasion of Hyrule (by Molduga stampede) and faking a pledge of fealty afterward. You got Rauru realizing this dude is bad news but going by the idea of keeping his enemies close instead of declaring war on the spot. You got Ganondorf almost getting the upper hand and Rauru sacrificing himself to stop him.

And that gets turned into everything being Rauru’s fault. He failed to stop Ganondorf earlier! He made a mistake! And hey, who’s to say he hadn’t been trying to conquer the Gerudo for years? Who’s to say Ganondorf wasn’t just attacking in self defence?

The goat guy is guilty, the hot one is not!

And yes it’s nothing new at all. It’s so, so common, in so many fandoms. And also, people can think whatever they want, and write it, and draw it.

It still bothers me. It is so transparently victim blaming. What Rauru supposedly did wrong was failing to stop Ganondorf quickly enough and/or somehow deserving Ganondorf’s hatred.

That’s not unique to TOTK either. I think it just bothers me because it’s in my orbit.

So yeah, people can do what they want with the material forever. But I wish what they wanted was not to excuse the atrocities and blame the victims.

#tears of the kingdom #king rauru #Ganondorf #rant

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shebeafancyflapjack · 2 years ago

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Just something interesting about the differences between TOTK Ganondorf stealing the gemstone and OOT Ganonforf stealing the triforce, because people have been saying it's the same thing just in a different shape...

Except what's interesting about the Triforce is that Ganondorf doesn't "steal" it, exactly, he earns it. Because lets face it the Three Goddesses are kinda amoral, they grant gifts to those they deem worthy but not out of a desire to "save" Hyrule. Ganondorf gets the Triforce of Power because Din chooses him by how far he goes to acheive it, while Nayru chooses Zelda and Farore chooses Link. But the goddesses won't stop the other pieces from being "taken" if one goes as far to reunite them and gain all three, as what happens in Wind Waker. All three timelines of this Ganondorf keep their Triforce, even after having been defeated or sealed. It's only lost either when Din chooses to take it back, possibly because she doesn't deem Ganondorf worthy anymore, in Twilight Princess, or Link is able to take it like in A Link to the Past or the first Zelda (how Ganondorf got it back between those Idk, I can't deal with the timeline anymore).

Anyway, compare that Sonia's stone which he takes after murdering her, while it does greatly empower him, it's not something that's been divinely gifted like the Triforce. It's actually rather fragile in comparison. The Triforce embeds itself in your soul, as it were, hence why even when the sages tried to execute him in TP the power was still gifted to him by Din to escape. The gemstone however can be shattered by a weapon or just handed at random to any person who touches it. It's much more your typical fantasy mcguffen where it's like "finders keepers". The goddesses no longer play a part in what seemed to be a long game.

In fact there doesn't seem to be any reference to the three goddesses in these new games, only Hylia. And yet we also know these are supposed to take place at the end of the timeline, so far after all the other games.

The only signs of the Triforce we see are on some markings, including the Zonai clothes. So my theory is the Zonai were able to harness the magic of the Triforce and the old gods into their technology, but the goddesses don't really care about those. Part of me suspects the goddesses stopped caring about Hyrule much after Wind Waker, as Ganondorf says they abandoned them (still the creepiest moment from him, ngl).

"But Rauru was the first King of Hyrule!" Uh, yeah...I don't buy that. Not because I think Skyward Link and Zelda founded Hyrule, that's never said, they could have just lived in a small settlement down on the land, nothing big enough to be a kingdom. But also I just feel like it's the Zonai trying to rewrite history in their favour.

For example, if you were to ask someone in England who our first King was, most folk would say William the Conqueror. And this is what most of us were taught in school and that prior to him we were just warring minor kingdoms and at some point the Romans turned up for a bit. But anyone who's watched the Last Kingdom knows it was Alfred the Great who was first called "King of the Anglo Saxons" as opposed to the areas under Scandinavian rule, so some credit him with being the first "King of the English" to some degree, but it was his grandson Aethelstan who would rule over all the land that would become England - and this is all about a century before Will One comes anywhere near the country. But then he takes over and claims those old kings didn't count, he wipes the slate clean despite the land he's King of having existed for centuries, and I suspect Rauru did similar. Don't get me wrong, I think Rauru is a good guy, but Ganondorf rightly calls him out for his arrogance and being a conquerer, and I think a huge part of Ganondorf launching his attacks was a fear of having the Gerudo, his people, submit to another King like the other races did.

Another point to add is that Ganondorf comments about Rauru marrying a "Hyrulean" woman, implying the land was known as Hyrule before Rauru took power. We know he also got the other races to bow to him as well. We don't know what this Hyrule was before Rauru, maybe a scatter of settlements like early England or maybe it was the newly formed land Link and Tetra find after Wind Waker, who knows. This is why I think even the events we are shown in the tears are events still happening at the end of the timeline and the next 10,000 years are all part of this new era unique to these new open world games, as opposed to a reiminagining of the events of Ocarina of Time. Because for me there's too many differences for them to be the same event, the lack of the Triforce being the main one. This is instead more of Hyrule repeating the events Demise cursed upon them back at the beginning of it all. Or it could be his curse coming to full fruition after tens of thousands of years, as Ganondorf physically resembles him by the end more than ever before. In short, this Ganondorf is not the same as in OOT, TP or Wind Waker.

I'm curious to see if the Triforce will ever make a real return in the series, but I also feel like Nintendo are enjoying not feeling obliged to use it in every Zelda (lets be honest it was a little forced and underwritten in SS).

#zelda meta #zelda theory #tloz #totk #the legend of zelda #zelda timeline

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joyouzz · 1 year ago

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LU/ATLA: Shatter World

Welcome to Linked Universe/Avatar:The Last Airbender!! Thank you to all you voted in the poles, now that I have all the Links, it’s time to start lore.

I’m planning on doing a few posts: The first one, this one, will strictly be lore base. Going over what happened one hundred years prior to the beginning of this Au.

The next one will briefly go over major conflicts after the one hundred years.

Finally, art posting time. Currently am working on the LU boys and what they would look like. You may have seen the very rough sketch I have of Hyrule.

So let’s kick this thing off! This lore will be important to understand what’s happening in the Au.

Answering some questions like, ‘why did Skyloft came to be’ and so on. Hopefully.

So let’s stop yapping and start reading!!

Shattered World

Water. Earth. Fire. Air.

The time of peace when the Avatar kept the balance between the Water Tribes, Earth Kingdom, Fire Nation, Air Nomads, and the spirits have long since passed.

One hundred years ago, a man by the name of Ganondorf wanted ultimate power. He rose from the deserts of the Si Wong, conquering any who opposed him. Marching all his way to the Fire Nation, killing King Rhoam, and taking the throne for himself.

But this was not even the beginning of his plans. No. He set his eyes on a much greater power.

The very spirit of the Avatar.

Avatar Rauru of the Air Nomads, unknowing of Ganondorf’s foul plans, traveled to the Fire Nation and fought the new King.

Fighting the day of the solar eclipse, Ganondorf revealed his plans to Rauru only an hour before the eclipse began.

He had the avatar right where he wanted him. Mocking the Avatar how it was too late.

Ganondorf was no fool. He knew the Avatar would be coming for him as soon as he took the Fire Nation throne by force. He was counting on it.

That was why prior to overtaking the throne Ganondorf had spies watching the Air Temples. Watching the Avatar’s beloved wife.

Ganondorf wanted the Avatar’s spirit, yes, but that doesn’t mean he wanted it to be easy. No. He wanted to break Rauru.

That is why he took the throne days before the solar eclipse, the day fire benders are at their peak.

That is why one of Ganondorf’s first acts as Fire Nation King, he sent soldiers to strike the Air Nomads the day of the eclipse.

To take everything from the Avatar. His culture, way of life, his people. His beloved wife, Sonia.

He was simply stalling the Avatar, watching in rejoice at the pure terror on the Avatar’s face.

Laughing as the Avatar launches into the air, racing against time towards the Southern Air Temple.

But it was too late.

The Fire Nation attacked.

By the time Avatar Rauru arrived at the Southern Air Temple, the temple was under siege. Aiding the Monks, Avatar Rauru fought to defend those left standing.

With the help of the Avatar, the defended the temple. At one point, it appeared that they were winning, the Fire Nation on the edge of retreat.

Tragedy struck. Hit from behind, Sonia fell victim to the Fire Nation.

One by one the Monks too joined Sonia on the ground. In a last attempt, Avatar Rauru did the unthinkable.

Going into the Avatar state, Rauru defeated the Fire Nation soldiers who stain the sacred temple with the blood of innocents.

He knew the Air Nomads were not safe, not with Ganondorf’s presence, so he began to make sure no one could finish off the Air Nomads.

Carving the Southern Air Temple out from the crust of the earth, Avatar Rauru raised the temple into the sky. Higher and higher into the heavens until disappearing into the clouds.

The chances of the other Air Nomads surviving were slim but this did not faulted the Avatar. Taking off, Rauru wasted no time to the next temple: The Eastern Air Temple.

He could only hope that there would be survivors who survive the onslaught.

And they did.

Rebels from the very tribe Ganondorf once grew up in, the Gerudo Tribe, had been ruining their tyrant king’s plans.

Having receive world days prior to the solar eclipse, the rebel Gerudo were outraged when discovering their tyrant king’s plans.

Sending their quickest scouts to the other temples, the remaining rebel Gerudo race towards the nearest Air Temple: The Eastern Air Temple.

It is thanks to these brave Gerudo that survivors came out from the temples to see another sun rise.

Conducting the same method, Avatar Rauru raised the Eastern Air Temple into the sky to join the Southern Air Temple.

Soon after, the Northern Air temple into the sky joining the other two temples.

Next, the Western Air Temple. The closest to the Fire Nation.

Avatar Rauru knew Ganondorf would be waiting for him there. He knew the costs. He knew he needed to end this.

No one ever saw Avatar Rauru or the tyrant king Ganondorf again when the Avatar went to the final temple.

No one knows what truly happened to them, only that their final actions broke the world forever.

Cracks began appearing throughout the world, creating gates from the Mortal Realm and Spirit Realm.

A corruption started to spread, turning once gentle spirits into blood thirsty monsters. Showing no mercy to anyone.

An era of destruction, war, blood slaughter has begun. And with no Avatar to bring peace and balance to this shattered world.

#legend of zelda #linked universe #avatar the last airbender #air #water #earth #fire #Linked Universe/Avatar: The Last Airbender #lu/atla

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dav1thy · 2 years ago

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several small totk headcanons:

-time between botw and totk is 6 years, like the irl time it took to release the games

-like botw, purah aged not through normal means but thru experiments

EDIT: It has been confirmed in one of Purah's diaries that this is exactly what happens, I am a wizard.

-In botw, link actually charged straight into the divine beasts/calamity ganon to save zelda. This means he didn't do any side missions (except tarrey town) in botw. This is why nobody other than tarrey town and the champions descendants actually acknowledge link in totk.

All the npcs probably knew him as "that strong knight guy who follows the princess around”. This doesn’t stop Link from becoming a big topic amongst the knights, but many side characters probably only know him by name if even that. (Tarrey town is the exception bc that was the biggest fan fav quest of botw and nintendo probably knew that and capitalized on it)

EDIT: Ive read somewhere that Hudson does not recognize you if you don't have a botw save, so perhaps this adds more credence to the idea that link stuck to the main quest stuff in botw? I like to think that he eventually comes back to do the sidequests WITH zelda in the 6 year time span between botw and totk, but zelda consistently made a better impression to the npcs than link does, so that's why most people are just oblivious to who link is.

That and the fact that link has Tony Hawk syndrome(tm)

a big totk hc:

-old sheikah tech dismantled both bc its served its purpose of helping the hero face calamity, but also prob bc the people of hyrule had more bad than good experiences with them and thought it best to get rid of them/repurpose them entirely to something benign (Like the towers)

another big botw/totk hc:

-sheikah built their tech based on the principals of the zonai, so the 120 shrines that were made to help the hero in botw were then turned into the lightroot/shrines in totk through zonai magic (there are 120 shrines on the surface in totk too, similar to botw)

Anyways, I’ve been having a blast with totk!! Conquered all the dungeons, gathered all the light roots, and finished the main story quest just yesterday! I’m currently cleaning up the rest of the remaining sidequests and doing a full explore of the new map :)

Btw. dont even get me started on timeline stuff. Mainly bc I won't get into it. I leave that to the zelda lore wizards to piece together, but I know that the "Imprisoning war" is a BIG info drop. Big lttp fan myself :)

#totk #botw #tears of the kingdom #breath of the wild #headcanons #davithy thoughts

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graveyard--dog · 2 years ago

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While the story of TotK is much more compelling compared to that of BotW, it is held back by a severe lack of strong characterization and Nintendo's insistence on this "tell, don't show" method of storytelling for this era of Zelda games.

There are many, many details missing from the story of TotK. This becomes obvious pretty early on once you start collecting geoglyph memories, but on a first playthrough it's pretty easy to ignore the gaps in favor of the juicy story we're being told, as well as the spectacle of Ganondorf every time he's on screen. But despite being the main character, Ganondorf's story as told to us is the weakest, flattest, most unimaginative characterization in both games.

Ganondorf is the star of this game. This is undeniable. Almost every time he's on screen, it is accompanied by some of the biggest, flashiest, most genuinely terrifying displays of power we've seen in the entire Zelda canon, let alone from other incarnations of Ganondorf. The game is more than happy to show us how much power Ganondorf has. But aside from how powerful he is, what are we really shown about TotK's Ganondorf? What do we actually learn about his character?

We are shown nothing of the circumstances of his birth or how he came to be the way he currently is. We are shown nothing of his relationship with the Gerudo, or what they may think of him, his actions, or his goals. We are never shown why he's so hell-bent on conquering (destroying? it's unclear, really) Hyrule, or why he seemingly hates the Zonai, or… anything, really! All we are told from others is "he's evil!", and all we are told from Ganondorf himself is "i hate light and think peace is for cowards!".

It wouldn't be so bad if these gaping holes were only confined to Ganondorf, but they aren't. Because we are shown nothing of who this Ganondorf is or why he has these motivations, we not only have no idea of what he thinks of the other characters in the story, we have no idea how the other characters feel about Ganondorf. All interactions with Ganondorf in TotK can be boiled down to an exchange of:

"You can't stop me, you are too weak!"

"Yes we will, because of Link!"

"Ha! We shall see…!"

This has the consequence of flattening out every other character in the game to match Ganondorf's tragically flat characterization. They have nothing to play off of, so everyone has to match the flat writing of the main character.

Not only is Ganondorf's characterization lacking in detail, so is everything regarding the characterization of King Rauru, Queen Sonia, the sages, and Ancient Hyrule. We are shown absolutely nothing of what the founding of Hyrule was like, or even what it looks like. We are shown absolutely nothing about the kind of rulers King Rauru and Queen Sonia are, or why they are the rulers in the first place (other than their powers, maybe?). We are shown virtually nothing about the sages of the past (we don't even see them use their abilities in that cutscene we have to watch 4 times over LOL). We could replace Rauru, Sonia, and all 5 sages with talking plants that have secret stones and the story would not change in the slightest.

All we ever get is: "This is Ganondorf. Look how bad and evil and scary he is! 😰 These are the good guys! 🙂 They fought Ganondorf, but he was too bad and evil and scary for them. 🙁 Now Link must defeat him! 😤"

I really hope that there's some sort of Ganondorf-focused DLC down the line. This game's plot is great, but the story and its characters leave a lot to be desired once you have time to sit down with it.

#loz totk #totk spoilers #tears of the kingdom spoilers #totk critique #critique #text post #this game does EVERYTHING right except for the story #oh BROTHER dont even get me started on that asspull at the very end

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miniscrew-anon · 2 years ago

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HSH Febuwhump Day 20 - Knife Wound

I think Hyrule can be dumb and stubborn every now and then. No one is responsible 100 percent of the time.

----

Thunk!

Warriors watched in silent horror. Right beside him, Sky cringed with his whole body, neck tensing and teeth fully exposed in a pained grimace.

Thunk!

Four’s attention was fully on the knife, mouth wobbling like he wanted to say something. Twilight looked ready to leap over the table and put a stop to it himself.

Thunk!

Legend winced with every hit, hissing in anticipation of blood. Even Wind, who usually didn’t care much what the others did, flinched every time the knife came down.

Thunk!

The whole room held their breath, watching. Like the worlds slowest train derailment, all they could do was await the inevitable.

They knew their words would do nothing. This was a matter of pride, now. They knew it just from the look in Hyrule’s eyes as he slammed the knife down again, glancing off his target and digging the blade into soft flesh. Everyone inhaled sharply.

But there was no blood. Yet.

The avocado wasn’t looking too good though.

“Hyrule, please.” Twilight tried to intervene again. He reached for the knife, terrified of Hyrule’s de-pitting methods. But the doctor just turned away from him and stabbed the fruit again.

“I got it, Twi.” Hyrule’s tone was unusually harsh. He would conquer this avocado, or die trying.

No one knew what he had against avocados.

“Is he always like this?” Four asked. He’d brought up his magazine to his chin, as if hiding behind the glossy pages.

“Yes. With avocados exclusively.” Legend grit his teeth as Hyrule missed the seed again and mangled the green flesh of the fruit further. He would usually step in to stop Hyrule from making poor choices, but he already knew this wasn’t a battle he’d win. He’s been living with the doctor long enough to know this only ends one way. “I don’t know why.”

“It’s his mortal enemy.” Sky breathed. The ex-guard recognized that hard look in Hyrule's eye. That was a stare one reserved for their greatest foe.

“This is so stupid - Hyrule let Twi help.” Warriors reached his limit. The blonde stood up and attempted to flank the doctor as Twilight went in for another grab. “You’re going to stab yourself. Let’s be reasonable, yeah?”

“I said I got it.” In a show of uncharacteristic childishness, Hyrule wriggled away from them, holding his hands outstretched and sticking his butt to them to stop them from taking the knife away. “If you just let me do this-”

“-You’ll cut your hand.” Twilight grabbed for the knife again, using his superior arm length to reach over Hyrule’s shoulder. He almost got it, fingertips brushing the handle.

But this was a mistake. Seeing the end in sight, Hyrule narrowed his eyes. With the clock having run out, he took one last desperate stab at the pit, this time holding the knife straight down in a stabbing motion in hopes of piercing it with sheer force.

Well, he pierced something.

But it wasn't the pit.

----

(Don’t google avocado hand unless you’re okay with blood. Because yikes this must be the most dangerous fruit in the world)

Hyrule can’t cook and I now headcanon that his mortal enemy is avocado. The fruit has wounded him one too many times so now it’s just a matter of dumb pride that he deals with it himself.

So far the score is Avocado: 17, Hyrule: 0

#hsh au #townhouse au #febuwhump 2023 #hsh hyrule #sometimes your mortal enemy is a fruit #it just be like that sometimes

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rawliverandgoronspice · 1 year ago

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Actually, sorry, I still don't see why TOTK is imperialistic. The imperialistic one does seem to be Ganon in his greed to conquer. I'm not saying I doubt your argumentsz just... Could you help me understand that?

Hey, yes! No problem at all. If that's okay with you, I'll compile my arguments in a series of links where I reply to previous asks.

Again, I want to reiterate that I don't think what we see in-game is secretely an imperialistic story about Rauru being a bad guy. We can speculate all we want, but there is no evidence in-world for Ganondorf to be anything other than a horrible baddie. My point is not that Ganondorf is secretely misunderstood in TotK, but that I believe Nintendo should have constructed its storytelling in a way that avoided falling into very loaded narrative patterns with real-life imperialistic echoes, and I am criticizing that they didn't try to deliver a version of Hyrule that gracefully accepted its own history, its influence over the world and its inherent moral grayness, instead of nervously scrubbing itself of substance out of fear of its own legacy.

This is the big one, that addresses the game's framing and why I think TotK's version of Hyrule parallels imperialist narrative movements.

This one talks about my problem with Rauru's character writing and what doesn't land for me.

This one is about why I don't think Nintendo is cackling about that good imperialist story they did, that it was probably accidental but still worth mentioning.

And this one, which I assume is the previous ask you sent me, adresses why I think saying that the zonais (and Sonia) are also PoC-coded kind of misses the point in my opinion.

Hope this clarifies my argument! I feel like, as the conversation matures in the fandom, this specific position (not talking for anyone else but me here) is getting kind of warped into something that it's not, or being conflated with the way people are creatively invested in the characters, which, while I certainly won't deny one obviously feeds off the other as far as I'm concerned*, are two separate things.

Again, it's completely fine to disagree! Or to agree and not be put off (everyone stop feeling guilty over the rare joy we manage to catch mid-flight --we can critique media without demanding people to Feel Bad as a result of the conclusions): it's a really fun game and I did play over a hundred hours! But I think the conversation is at least worth considering in a way that isn't caricatured as its weaker arguements.

*(to be very transparent so my own position is crystal clear, and it helps people making up their own mind: Ganondorf touches me as a character because of the way he inherently tries to fight against the limitations Hyrule/The Goddesses/the fiction itself try to force upon him --to devastating and unproductive results-- so the more his own canon tries to flatten him and the more poignant his character becomes to me. Won't deny that! It's this exact realization that made me spiral into hyperfocus to begin with --I am deeply touched by themes of tragic ambition and the impossibility of meaningful rebellion while STILL willingly burning everything down for the sake of refusing your place in the universe, even when the only thing accomplished by the end was the unflinching expression of your agency as well as General Suffering. So of course he would just catch me by the throat like that, that bastard. That being said, I don't think TotK Ganondorf (or any Ganondorf tbh) is a poor little meow meow, especially not in this game's canon where he is *obviously* nothing more than a threat to be stumped and doesn't ever meaningfully oppose you ideologically, which is kind of my problem. Even OoT Ganondorf, simplistic as he may be, questions Hyrule's inherent stability, inevitability and glory in many, many ways. Here's another, final post about why I liked the gerudos better in OoT despite All of The Problems, that partially addresses this exact point!)

#asks #thoughts #totk #totk critical #totk spoilers #ganondorf #rauru #when will my brain return from the imprisoning war....#thanks for the ask!#it actually allowed me to rassemble my points in a more digestible way so it's pretty neat #I feel like I forgot a couple of posts so maybe I'll add stuff back later #again while I think I'm right because I mean... I wouldn't invest that much typewriting in the whole thing otherwise #I'm completely fine with counterpoints and cordial disagreements #(as long as the counterpoints are not like huge mischaracterizations or understand that... I'm talking about the narrative framing)#(not the reality of Hyrule itself)#(I don't care about Hyrule itself it's not real!!!)#((I mean I care deeply but you understand me))

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skyloftsword · 1 year ago

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Tears of the Kingdom's Story Summarized (Part 1)

Just wanted to summarize the story of TotK because I'm bored. Spoilers of course.

Ok so, after Link and the Champions saved the world from the Calamity once and for all, peace finally returned to Hyrule. The Divine Beasts stopped working entirely, essentially becoming just scrap. So Link and Zelda decided to let the Master Sword have some rest and went to go help work on rebuilding Hyrule for a few years, starting with Hateno Village. As time goes on, gloom starts to become more and more prevalent in Hyrule, causing Link and Zelda to go down beneath Hyrule Castle to investigate. They go to the Great Deku Tree first to retrieve the Master Sword and discover that sacred power can help make the Master Sword become even stronger. The intro segment plays out and Zelda talks about how after the Calamity, the castle started to go into neglect. The Calamity is the reason Rauru's seal finally broke and gloom started to finally spew out of the castle. The two of them meet Ganondorf, Zelda falls and goes back to the founding of THIS Hyrule, Link gets carried by Rauru to the Great Sky Island and has his burned hand replaced so he can live.

Zelda's perspective:

Zelda wakes up in a familiar but not-so familiar area and is found by the first King and Queen of THIS Hyrule. They take her in as if she was their own (they're blood related, Rauru and Sonia's child is never shown on screen (or children)). They go meet up with Mineru to see if she can help find a way to return Zelda back to her original time to be with Link again. Unfortunately for them, the only way back was via draconification, which according to what they know is irreversible (which they clearly never tried many times to reverse draconification). A while after this, Ganondorf and his army attack Hyrule in an attempt to conquer it. This is where Sonia teaches Zelda how to amplify a Secret Stone's power. Ganondorf notices the stone on Rauru's hand and smirks, thinking of potential plans to get his hands on one. After he loses, Rauru invites Ganondorf to the castle to get him to apologize. He does apologize, however the apology is not genuine and they know it, which is why they want to keep a close eye on him (which they clearly didn't do a great job at). A little while later, Zelda, Rauru and Sonia have some tea time. Sonia teaches Zelda about how her Time power works when her teacup falls. They then talk about Link, Zelda gushes about him greatly, about how his heart is true and is amazing. Some time later, Sonia is asked by a puppet of Ganondorf disguised as Zelda to have a private meeting. Sonia and Zelda set up a trap since it was very obviously suspicious. However, this trap ended up backfiring completely, getting Sonia killed and letting Ganondorf snag the Secret Stone right off of her. Ganondorf then lets out a loud howl, alerting the monsters of the world. Rauru notices and tries to attack but Zelda warns him not to do so because Ganondorf is too powerful at the moment. Attacks happen all over Hyrule causing Rauru to need to gather all of the Sages to discuss their next move. Mineru tells him that its too dangerous to fight Ganondorf alone, Rauru agrees, giving the rest of the Sages their own Secret Stones. The night before the final battle, Rauru grieves at Sonia's grave. Zelda then approaches him and warns that they will all lose to the Demon King during the battle. Rauru reassures her saying that it doesn't matter if he falls, the noble swordsman Link will be the last line of defense, he will save the world from Ganondorf once and for all. With that, the final battle happens, they attempt to defeat Ganondorf but end up fatally wounded. Rauru then sacrifices himself with one final act, blaming himself for all of this, sealing Ganondorf for hundreds of thousands of years. Later on, Zelda tells the Sages that Link will then save Hyrule and asks them to lend him their assistance. Some time after all of that, Zelda approaches the pedestal that Link sends the Master Sword back in time to, she then receives it and makes her happy knowing Link is safe. This also makes her realize what she must do. She goes to Mineru first, who was horribly burned and on her death bed basically to tell her she will become a dragon. Mineru is gravely opposed to this, however she promises to help in any way she can. She then puts her spirit inside the Purah Pad, which was given to a Construct to later on be given to Link. Zelda then performs the most heartbreaking action in the franchise (in my opinion at least), she turns into a dragon, spending hundreds of thousands of years roaming around Hyrule mindlessly. While painfully turning into a dragon, she starts to cry in agony. The tears from her fall onto the earth, which will later on be marked with Geoglyphs by Hylians. With that, this is the end of Zelda's perspective.

Link's Perspective:

Link wakes up on the Great Sky Island with a new hand given to him by Rauru. He notices the decayed Master Sword on the tree root in front of him. He then approaches a strange device with two dragons eating each other's tails. He exits the Room of Awakening and skydives down into the water on an island below. He is then given the Purah Pad by a Construct, who tells him to meet Zelda at the old Temple of Time. He attempts to do so, but Rauru appears out of nowhere, telling Link he needs to power up the arm. So Link goes to the three Shrines that Rauru told him to go to, the door then opens up and inside is a Secret Stone floating. Link touches it and receives Zelda's Vow: the ability Recall. Link then tries to go to the back of the Temple of Time but cannot, as he needs to become a little stronger. Rauru then tells Link to warp back to the Room of Awakening to get one last Blessing of Light. Link does this and returns to the Temple of Time. Once he opens the door, Rauru then gives his final farewell to Link, telling him that he truly is just like what Zelda said. Link then sends the Master Sword back in time for Zelda to receive in the past. With that, Link then jumps down to the mainland of Hyrule Kingdom and heads to Lookout Landing. While Link was asleep, Purah had Lookout Landing constructed so that everyone could look for Link and Zelda much easier as they had been gone for quite some time. Upon arriving, Link is given a warm welcome from everyone that recognizes him. Josha, the new Sheikah scientist who was told to study the Depths (but isn't allowed to go in there because she's just a kid), calls for Purah. Purah then rushes out the door of her base asking Link where he and Zelda went and what happened. After everything was explained to her, Link then is told to go find Captain Hoz at Hyrule Castle. Upon meeting Captain Hoz, they spot "Princess Zelda", which is later on revealed to just be a puppet of Ganondorf. Going back to Purah, she then asks Link to wait a day so she can finish up the Sheikah Tower there. After waking up from a nap or whatever, Link meets her at the base of it, she gives him a Paraglider and sends Link up to the sky above with the Tower. After this Link is told about horrible situations that are happening in four areas of Hyrule. He is advised to assist the Rito with their problems first. On the way to Rito Village, Link finds a new Stable, called the New Serenne Stable and close by spots Impa looking at one of the Geoglyphs. He goes to Impa (WHO RECOGNIZES HIM), talks to her and goes on a balloon trip to take a look at the Geoglyph. Link notices a hole, which when he inspects it has one of Zeldragon's tears. He then sees the moment that Zelda had awakened in the early days of THIS Hyrule. So, with that Link starts his quest to assist Hyrule with its problems, awaken four of the new Sages and to find all the Dragon's Tears. Once he's done with those, he returns to Lookout Landing and is told to approach Hyrule Castle's upper part as "Princess Zelda" was spotted there. He is then taken on a wild goose chase around the castle only to end up at the Sanctum. The puppet then reveals themselves as Ganondorf, the Sages show up to help Link and stop the Phantom Ganons that were summoned. After this battle Link is then told to search for the fifth Sage at Kakariko Village. Link goes there and tells Dr. Calip, Tauro and Paya to let him investigate as the Zelda that told them not to go to them was just a puppet of Ganondorf. He then finds hints about the Zonai Ruins, having Tauro, Dr. Calip and him go there and investigate the ruins. Link then goes and finds the Charged Armor Set and performs a ritual to clear up the Thunderhead Islands. Link then goes through the island chain and reaches Dragonhead Island where he first hears Mineru's voice. Mineru tells him to bring her mask down to Tobio's Hollow. (End of Part 1)

#totk #totk spoilers #tears of the kingdom

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